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Nixpkgs Architecture Team

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9 Jun 2023
@k900:0upti.meK900Simple as in simple package paths, also simple as in simple to add17:31:28
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @k900:0upti.me
But was pkgs/simple proposed?
I think that would imply that there's a complicated way to declare packages, which there currently is, but it's something we should get away from. Once we migrate everything, simple wouldn't mean anything anymore
17:33:20
@niksnut:matrix.orgEelco infinisil: The RFC process doesn't replace PR review. And "pkgs/unit" shouldn't get through PR review. 17:34:17
@hexa:lossy.networkhexaso at this time the RFC prefers a meaningless name over one with a meaning17:36:00
@piegames:matrix.org@piegames:matrix.org
In reply to @hexa:lossy.network
so at this time the RFC prefers a meaningless name over one with a meaning
Some people do, personally I am fine with a meaningless name because any name is better than no name. And so far no satisfactory meaningful name has been brought up IMO
17:36:52
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil There's a decent argument for unit by Robert Hensing (roberth) here: https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/140#discussion_r1170362174 17:37:51
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org
infinisil: The RFC process doesn't replace PR review. And "pkgs/unit" shouldn't get through PR review.
Even if you created Nix, I expect you to respect the community's RFC process, especially for Nixpkgs. If you were to block/revert the implementation of the RFC as it is stated, I consider that a violation of the RFC process.
17:40:18
@niksnut:matrix.orgEelcoIn that case I withdraw my statement about not having to cancel FCP17:41:03
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilWell, it's up to the shepherd team to decide whether it needs to be canceled17:41:33
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil K900: Oh apparently simple was proposed, see this linked thread 17:42:58
@niksnut:matrix.orgEelcoFor instance, if a shepherd team makes some bad decision about Nix, I wouldn't feel that the Nix team would be required to implement it. That's not how open source works. You can't force maintainers to accept technical decisions that they can't get behind.17:43:13
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil niksnut: Fully agreed, but in this case it's not Nix, it's Nixpkgs, which is fully developed by the community, there's no official global Nixpkgs maintainers 17:44:20
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil niksnut: Also, in case something you couldn't technically accept for Nix were accepted in an RFC, I expect you to be able to raise "substantial technical objections" (cited from the RFC readme) to prevent such changes from being merged 17:46:29
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.org

I'm not sure if the peanut gallery is allowed to suggest things, I will promptly delete my message if not, but would pkgs/_XX be a sufficient compromise to the pkgs/unit/XX debacle? that is, any 3 character directory starting with an underscore is considered to be a shard. the underscore would give off the feeling of being an internal data structure as well, which would bring in the nuance that someone suggested with "auto." it would also be lexically grouped together in this way.

sorry in advance if I'm overstepping my bounds here.

17:58:48
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil sy: No problem at all, suggestions are always welcome by anybody! 17:59:34
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.org *

I'm not sure if the peanut gallery is allowed to suggest things, I will promptly delete my message if not, but would pkgs/_XX be a sufficient compromise to the pkgs/unit/XX debacle? that is, any 3 character directory starting with an underscore is considered to be a shard. the underscore would give off the feeling of being an internal data structure as well, which would bring in the nuance that someone suggested with "auto." it would also be lexically grouped together in this way.

(strictly speaking, I find the idea of sharding for the sake of the GitHub UI to be unfortunate. I think it's weird that we're tying NixOS's design to GitHub's UX.)

sorry in advance if I'm overstepping my bounds here.

18:00:20
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil

sy: Interesting idea, I can see some minor problems with it:

  • Due to _ being listed before the alphabet, it would cause all the pkgs/top-level, pkgs/stdenv, etc. to be moved to the bottom of the file listing
  • File structures of repos should be considered internal by default, so a _ could be interpreted as something that's even more internal, something that even developers of the repo shouldn't touch, maybe a bit exaggerated though
18:02:26
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil Also I like how any separate pkgs/unit (s/unit/whatever/) allows you to put a Readme.md right in there to explain what it's about, though I think GitHub would also hide the rendered version after the 700 shards.. 18:04:25
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.org

those are excellent points. I don't personally have anything to add to that but I do agree they are minor.

if we had to go the subdirectory route, I would vote on "shards" or "sharded" though I have very little interest in contributing to the naming discussion more than I already have.

(I am avoiding pkgs/unit here or pkgs/shards not as a statement but to focus the sharding structure.) regarding GitHub's UI, my only potentially naive rumination on the directory structure is that something like pkgs/A/B/${name}/package.nix or pkgs/A/B/C/${name}/packages.nix could be adopted instead of pkgs/AB/${name}/packages.nix or pkgs/AB/CD/${name}/packages.nix. having one letter levels would enforce that each level has a maximum of 26 directories. GitHub could surely be agreeable to that experience. given that there's a very large group of packages with the lib prefix it might even be appealing to have pkgs/A/B/C/D/${name}/package.nix

18:20:57
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil sy: Neat, I don't think we came up with that alternative yet! 18:23:26
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.org *

those are excellent points. I don't personally have anything to add to that but I do agree they are minor.

if we had to go the subdirectory route, I would vote on "shards" or "sharded" though I have very little interest in contributing to the naming discussion more than I already have.

(I am avoiding pkgs/unit here or pkgs/shards not as a statement but to focus the sharding structure.) regarding GitHub's UI, my only potentially naive rumination on the directory structure is that something like pkgs/A/B/${name}/package.nix or pkgs/A/B/C/${name}/packages.nix could be adopted instead of pkgs/AB/${name}/packages.nix or pkgs/AB/CD/${name}/packages.nix. having one letter levels would enforce that each level has a maximum of 26+10+2 directories. GitHub could surely be agreeable to that experience. given that there's a very large group of packages with the lib prefix it might even be appealing to have pkgs/A/B/C/D/${name}/package.nix

18:23:43
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilBtw it's technically a bit more than just 26, because numbers, _ and - are also allowed :P18:24:11
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.orghaha. yeah. I ninja edited that change just now.18:24:30
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil I think the biggest argument against such multi-level structures in general is that they cause ambiguities when the package name is too short. E.g. In a pkgs/A/B structure, where would a itself go? 18:25:27
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilThere are solutions to this, but it's an extra special case that needs to be explained and implemented.18:25:59
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil However, with only pkgs/A/B, there's only very few packages that would cause such problems, so it's very minor 18:26:28
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusthe pkgs/AB/CD is a classical thing BTW18:26:54
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.orgoh. that's an excellent point. I guess if we used underscores..18:27:31
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilYeah that was one of the suggested ideas for handling this, using some replacement character18:27:52
@syphoxy:matrix.org@syphoxy:matrix.org* oh. that's an excellent point. I guess if we used underscores.. (or maybe prefix with s?)18:28:37

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