| 20 Jul 2022 |
 yorik.sar | I mean, we should probably define that. | 16:07:16 |
| yorik.sar | There's also https://github.com/SwadicalRag/wasm2lua that could be used as last resort for such platforms... | 16:08:19 |
 kevincox | FWIW I don't think we need to exactly define it. We consider it as part of the tradeoff. If two options are basically the same but one supports 10 "systems" and the other only supports 8 we prefer the 10 one. However there is probably a minimum set that is a deal breaker that we can define. | 16:08:21 |
 Gytis Ivaskevicius | For lua vs ruby argument:
Initially i wrote most of this in lua, but its nowhere near as clean, requires quite a few extra dependencies and overall less convenient
https://github.com/gytis-ivaskevicius/nix-reinventing-the-wheel/tree/master/builders/scripts
And i was learning ruby with this project, there definetelly are some issues, off the top of my head it requires a little DSL for env/json values access and make spawning processes more asynchronous. All in all - till now i cant think of a better language choice while keeping our restrictions in mind | 16:08:43 |
| yorik.sar | Well, we should probably take into account what platforms we want to support in the end... | 16:08:50 |
 infinisil | For some exotic platforms, this user seems to do some work: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pulls?q=author%3Aamjoseph-nixpkgs | 16:08:57 |
| yorik.sar | We could also fall back to generating Bash code... | 16:09:48 |
 problems | the point is to do things bash can't do, like working with structured data | 16:10:43 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @yorik.sar:matrix.org
We could also fall back to generating Bash code... I'd say either we keep mkderivation as it is or change it for the better | 16:10:51 |
| infinisil | ash (it/its) 🏳️⚧️: I think yorik.sar means to essentially compile to bash from the language that's picked | 16:11:03 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @yorik.sar:matrix.org
We could also fall back to generating Bash code... * I'd say either we keep mkderivation as it is or change it for the better. No middle ground | 16:11:03 |
| infinisil | I think that's a viable temporary solution while the language waits for support for more exotic platforms | 16:11:25 |
| yorik.sar | By the way, it's also an option - use Bash as runtime, but add a good language that can be translated to it. Then the translator is responsible for all type checking and guarnatees. | 16:11:38 |
| infinisil | Oh but then the compiler from language X to bash needs to be portable.. | 16:11:57 |
| infinisil | Sounds messy! | 16:12:09 |
| yorik.sar | Well, we could build the builder on Linux or smth... | 16:12:28 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @yorik.sar:matrix.org
By the way, it's also an option - use Bash as runtime, but add a good language that can be translated to it. Then the translator is responsible for all type checking and guarnatees. i am not aware of such languages and i find difficult to imagine something that does the job well. but surprise me ;) | 16:12:34 |
| yorik.sar | (if we use system-agnostic drv for that) | 16:12:38 |
| infinisil | Probably best to pick a very portable language from the start | 16:12:40 |
| infinisil | Or wait for WASM | 16:12:50 |
| infinisil | /WASI | 16:12:54 |
| problems | my gf would like me to mention that if a language is picked for this that works with netbsd/vax, she's interested in trying to get it actually working on that platform | 16:12:58 |
| yorik.sar | In reply to @kity:kity.wtf
my gf would like me to mention that if a language is picked for this that works with netbsd/vax, she's interested in trying to get it actually working on that platform Port wasmtime there and all languages will come ;) | 16:13:29 |
| kevincox | FWIW I don't think we need strong type checking for builder scripts. I just think we need more types than string and array of string. | 16:13:33 |
| infinisil | Good point, portability isn't something static, people might be motivated to add support if they can use it for nixpkgs | 16:13:38 |
| problems | In reply to@yorik.sar:matrix.org
Port wasmtime there and all languages will come ;) not possible due to floating point issues | 16:13:46 |
| yorik.sar | https://github.com/batsh-dev-team/Batsh | 16:14:14 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
Or wait for WASM lua/ruby can run on wasm as well as many others. Either way these derivations would not suddenly become system agnostic since we need something to covnvert xLang -> wasm | 16:14:15 |
| yorik.sar | In reply to @kity:kity.wtf
not possible due to floating point issues You can emulate them if needed. It would be slower, but would still work. | 16:14:49 |
| kevincox | The performance of the builder script is unlikely to be a significant cost even with emulated floating point. | 16:15:31 |
