| 21 Jul 2021 |
 samueldr | (to circle back to the actual topic, rather than fresh bikeshedding) tomberek: thanks, this will help with my lack of knowledge with docker when actually writing docs for $PROJECT | 20:47:31 |
 matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Of course not all can be. I'm just suggesting that sphinx/rst make it practically impossible to automate. | 20:48:17 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | * Of course not all can be. I'm just suggesting that sphinx/rst make it practically impossible to automate anything other than Python docs. | 20:48:30 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | https://squidfunk.github.io/mkdocs-material/reference/variables/ | 20:49:16 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | I will not discuss here any further since I realise I'm overtaking the topic. My bad. | 20:49:37 |
| samueldr | right, tomberek, "authoring format" is probably another reason I forgot about when discussing that earlier | 20:53:48 |
 tomberek | samueldr: I’d be happy to do an bit of Docker introduction with you | 23:37:57 |
| samueldr | I kind of don't want to ;) | 23:38:21 |
| samueldr | makes it easier to gauge whether things only make sense to a docker enthusiast or not :) | 23:38:40 |
| samueldr | though with that said it's more tongue-in-cheek, I'm sure it's worthwhile to better understand all of this and how where Nix helps | 23:39:47 |
| 22 Jul 2021 |
 ryantm | NixOS slightly mentioned on Linus Tech Tips :) https://youtu.be/_Ua-d9OeUOg?t=121 | 20:43:19 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | Yeah that's unexpected | 20:49:35 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | I think it marks a significant milestone, that we've come far enough to be on that radar. | 20:49:55 |
| 23 Jul 2021 |
 jonringer | "hardmode", compared to the other distros, I would agree. Lol | 01:22:14 |
 davidak | maybe we could get to intermetiate with an easy gui installer for desktop users. not sure if it ever could be beginner-friendly with all the options. maybe we would need a gui configuration editor that hides everything a desktop user does not need (with option to show everything). or a distro based on NixOS, like Manjaro | 01:25:19 |
| jonringer | I think the problem is that nixos is a "choose your own adventure" distro. Other distros have a much easier time as the provide one well polished experience. | 01:41:56 |
 David Arnold | In reply to @davidak:matrix.org
maybe we could get to intermetiate with an easy gui installer for desktop users. not sure if it ever could be beginner-friendly with all the options. maybe we would need a gui configuration editor that hides everything a desktop user does not need (with option to show everything). or a distro based on NixOS, like Manjaro Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in that direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as like flake-utils-plus, divnix/digga or divnix/devos (in the flake realm). | 01:48:37 |
| David Arnold | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as like `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm). | 01:49:04 |
| David Arnold | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm). | 01:49:20 |
| David Arnold | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm, that I know of). | 01:49:56 |
| tomberek | Flakes themselves are a structure for Nix overall. I see these other projects as exploring the design space that may at one point be adopted for NixOS configurations. (Eg: niv for pinning) | 01:51:40 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
I think the problem is that nixos is a "choose your own adventure" distro. Other distros have a much easier time as the provide one well polished experience. Not over time though. NixOS is like a permanent LTS. | 01:52:34 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | The logo for Nix is so brilliant in this regard. If you do history | wc -l on any other distro, you can find out how many 'commits away from master' you are. There is no hope of ever returning to a baseline. | 01:53:09 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | With Nix, every upgrade has given me warnings that I can fix easily, and things are deprecated lovingly. | 01:53:32 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | It's a choose your own adventure, but you can always get back to the start, and the branches are never severed. | 01:54:49 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | The logo is brilliant in this regard. | 01:54:54 |
| davidak | "You’ve got to start with the customer experience and work backward to the technology. You can’t start with the technology then try to figure out where to sell it."
https://www.horsesforsources.com/steve-jobs1997_080820 (with video)
i got the quote from this video at 12:33 (can't link because chromium is broken on nixos unstable and can't display text)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFBoB6xijY
| 03:23:24 |
| davidak | i think that's what we try to do with nix and nixos, especially the people in this room. try to sell a product that no one asked for and most even say they don't need it (see hackernews comments on nixos) | 03:24:59 |
| davidak | on the other hand look what elementary OS, Pop_OS! and SteamOS does | 03:25:40 |
| David Arnold | I think a declarative system is like painting a picture. It's such a great thing for people who like to keep their environment tidy. Maybe we could start from there? | 03:26:42 |
