In reply to @gdesforges:matrix.org
Good thanks 👍 I don't know about lobste.rs so that's why I'm asking

In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
So it's not surprising to me, that Nix would be shilled, or appear a lot, even in comment sections on lobste.rs, considering the amount of people on lobste.rs that use Nix.

I tend to agree with raitobezarius that the Nix community has the tendency to be pretty "in your face"—if I may use the term people tend to describe my music with—. This definitely isn't something that bothers everyone, but for people that are looking form the outside, it looks hostile at times. I had a talk at FOSDEM with some people from the Arch community, and they brought up some pretty good topics.

1. We tend to use the term reproducible incorrectly. https://reproducible-builds.org/
2. We also seems tempted to directly jump into a defensive position, which makes it look as if we don't care about the other side

I tend to agree with raitobezarius that the Nix community has the tendency to be pretty "in your face"—if I may use the term people tend to describe my music with—. This definitely isn't something that bothers everyone, but for people that are looking form the outside, it looks hostile at times. I had a talk at FOSDEM with some people from the Arch community, and they brought up some pretty good topics.

1. We tend to use the term reproducible incorrectly. https://reproducible-builds.org/
2. We also seems tempted to directly jump into a defensive position, which makes it look as if we don't care about the other side
3. We seem to be everywhere. 😛

I don't know a solution to this, but I think it's safe to assume we should provide a welcoming place for people looking at the Nix community for the first time. And honestly, I think the Discourse forum already is that place.

I tend to agree with raitobezarius that the Nix community has the tendency to be pretty "in your face"—if I may use the term people tend to describe my music with—. This definitely isn't something that bothers everyone, but for people that are looking form the outside, it looks hostile at times. I had a talk at FOSDEM with some people from the Arch community, and they brought up some pretty good topics.

1. We tend to use the term reproducible incorrectly. https://reproducible-builds.org/
2. We also seems tempted to directly jump into a defensive position, which makes it look as if we don't care about the other side
3. We seem to be everywhere. 😛

I don't know a solution to this, but I think it's safe to assume we should provide a welcoming place for people looking at the Nix community for the first time. And honestly, I think the Discourse forum already is that place.

Fixing the "people are too forward" problem on other platforms is almost impossible to avoid. But we can make sure that when people look at Nix, they see the friendly community we are.

I had a talk at FOSDEM with some people from the Arch community, and they brought up some pretty good topics.

Can we just examine what the Arch community fosters for a moment? Lol.

We tend to use the term reproducible incorrectly. https://reproducible-builds.org/

I don't think we do. There are just two ways it is meant:

1. Extensional (Input Addressed)
2. Intensional (Content Addressed)

Nix supports both! They are both methods of achieving reproducibility, as far as I am aware. You don't need bit-for-bit reproducibility to achieve behavioral reproducibility, which is something Nix proves every day. Bit-for-bit reproducibility may not be fully achievable given that a lot of compilers don't produce deterministic output.

In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
Who defines reproducible anyway? I couldn't spot a definition on that page

As far as I'm aware there's a million definitions, which doesn't help. But the reproducible builds initiative shares that name. At FOSDEM someone told me they were confused if Nix was part of that or not.

We're also kind of ignoring some people's work at trying to get Nix into that project. Which doesn't help.

In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
And at the same time, that "Oh, but Nix" is what makes them take a second look.

In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it
Who defines reproducible anyway? I couldn't spot a definition on that page

In reply to @matthewcroughan:defenestrate.it

I had a talk at FOSDEM with some people from the Arch community, and they brought up some pretty good topics.

Can we just examine what the Arch community fosters for a moment? Lol.

Are Arch people particularly polite such that we should be learning something from them?

Please, let's not make statement like those. I think we ought to be the bigger person in those situations, I believe we have a great community and that's why I am hopeful we can do better. Let's treat them with respect, no matter what our previous experiences were (they might not be representative of their community, they might be changing, etc.) as we would like to have for us too.

In reply to @bjth:matrix.org
It's also quite true we currently don't recognize other distros/projects, like raitobezarius says. We could give them shoutouts on social media when they achieve something. But then again, the socials a.t.m. seem to attract people that are already somewhat involved with Nix.

Moreover, to me, as a NixOS developer, I benefit a lot of the work from other distributions such as Gentoo, Debian or even Archlinux.
For example, the upcoming LLVM16 had a lot of breakage with a lot of packages, who is doing the work to fix upstream? https://bugs.gentoo.org/870412 ; Gentoo is spearheading.

We are going to benefit from this and I do not want to make it look like we "fixed" everything because NixOS is amazing, etc. Yes, NixOS can do a lot of incredible things, but also because we are building all together even if we do not see it "directly".

Foxboron for example is working on https://github.com/golang/go/issues/57120 -- true, bit to bit reproducibility is hard, but this is going to benefit us in the end, we are going to say we have bit to bit reproducibility for Go, but it's a Archlinux developer who has been driving this change.

Let's empower everyone in the Linux distribution community, this is also a very sustainable fashion to draw people to NixOS, other than just simply "oh, but Nix" in every discussion. We can explain what we do and our struggles. I also had many situations where explaining honestly our challenges and how do we benefit from other distribution made the person interested into NixOS.

In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org

Moreover, to me, as a NixOS developer, I benefit a lot of the work from other distributions such as Gentoo, Debian or even Archlinux.
For example, the upcoming LLVM16 had a lot of breakage with a lot of packages, who is doing the work to fix upstream? https://bugs.gentoo.org/870412 ; Gentoo is spearheading.

We are going to benefit from this and I do not want to make it look like we "fixed" everything because NixOS is amazing, etc. Yes, NixOS can do a lot of incredible things, but also because we are building all together even if we do not see it "directly".

Foxboron for example is working on https://github.com/golang/go/issues/57120 -- true, bit to bit reproducibility is hard, but this is going to benefit us in the end, we are going to say we have bit to bit reproducibility for Go, but it's a Archlinux developer who has been driving this change.

Let's empower everyone in the Linux distribution community, this is also a very sustainable fashion to draw people to NixOS, other than just simply "oh, but Nix" in every discussion. We can explain what we do and our struggles. I also had many situations where explaining honestly our challenges and how do we benefit from other distribution made the person interested into NixOS.