| 13 Aug 2021 |
 tomberek | or "complicated toolchain for <insert-embedded-thing-here>? no prob, 'nix-shell' is all you need!" | 00:54:25 |
| tomberek | * or "complicated cross-compiling toolchain for <insert-embedded-thing-here>? no prob, 'nix-shell' is all you need!" | 00:54:45 |
 evils | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
or "complicated cross-compiling toolchain for <insert-embedded-thing-here>? no prob, 'nix-shell' is all you need!" i think the counter-argument i've heard for that is "just use docker"
and it's hard to argue against a tool that works and many people already know | 00:56:25 |
| tomberek | or (a bit more salesman-like): "tired of being able to get something to work, but no one can reproduce your results? Or they can't reproduce your bug reports? Do I have a proposal for you!" | 00:56:37 |
| tomberek | well, for hardware people are a bit easier because they usually don't want Docker between them and their hardware. "it's native!" | 00:57:26 |
| tomberek | Yeah, "just use Docker" is really good on day 1, but horrible on day 101. But that is a more subtle point that I don't know how to make effectively. | 00:58:28 |
| evils | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
Yea, but it explains how you could build a single package, or a whole OS, or a installation cd, or a VM image besides just providing you with packages, it allows you to compose systems with those packages, as complex as a full desktop OS | 01:01:25 |
| evils | In reply to @evils:nixos.dev
besides just providing you with packages, it allows you to compose systems with those packages, as complex as a full desktop OS this kinda makes the division between nix and NixOS disappear entirely though | 01:02:40 |
| tomberek | i normally transition to NixOS with something like "and so you may be wondering if this whole scheme works? Does it scale? Is it manageable? Well, they built a Linux distribution around it. And operate entire fleets of machines with it." | 01:05:55 |
| tomberek | another angle (but it may backfire with a niche community) would be to stress the value of Nixpkgs | 01:12:33 |
| evils | yea i was mostly inclined to have a nix/NixOS split as i think having the number of packages in nixpkgs available on any distro on its own is the biggest hook we have for casual linux users | 01:13:32 |
 jonringer | I mean, there's nothing in nix which was added to make NixOS work. The module system works in a similar way to overlays, and those are just functional programming concepts, not nix-specific concepts | 01:13:36 |
| jonringer | But I would still say that NixOS modules, and declarative system configuration is still a novel idea. And it's one of the defining features of NixOS | 01:14:35 |
| evils | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
I mean, there's nothing in nix which was added to make NixOS work. The module system works in a similar way to overlays, and those are just functional programming concepts, not nix-specific concepts "nix is so general purpose, they happened to make an OS with it" | 01:15:05 |
| jonringer | sure, but I'm not sure what you're "selling" with that | 01:15:46 |
| evils | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
sure, but I'm not sure what you're "selling" with that mostly that it's not a niche tool | 01:16:05 |
| tomberek | The number of things that work with sane defaults via "services.COOL-THING.enable = true;" is wonderful. | 01:16:13 |
| jonringer | s/general purpose/composable/g and I think that would stand better | 01:16:34 |
| evils | yea but i couldn't define "composable" if asked
and the nix tool itself isn't composable | 01:17:03 |
| evils | i feel like suggesting people try NixOS is like asking them to jump in the deep end
with using nix as a package manager on whatever distro they're on, is the shallow end | 01:19:47 |
| evils | maybe i'm just biased because that's how i got into NixOS | 01:20:45 |
| evils | but i feel like i'd get more people to install nix than NixOS
and once they're using nix, moving to NixOS feels almost inevitable | 01:21:34 |
| jonringer | by composable, I mean nix packages with other nix packages | 01:22:59 |
| jonringer | you could have a python2 application with a python3 environment, and it should work | 01:23:16 |
| jonringer | Agreed, I would focus on what they could do "today", and just let it play out | 01:29:09 |
| evils | oh, what can be done in a day
not what is possible with nix these days | 01:30:35 |
 matthewcroughan - nix.zone | made a video about Nix, it's rough but intend to get better :) https://youtu.be/t09KvJcx15g | 17:54:34 |
| 16 Aug 2021 |
 davidak | 0.8% of linux gamers use nixos, says this not representative survey
https://boilingsteam.com/which-linux-distro-for-gaming-q2-2021-survey-results/ | 12:37:44 |
 andi- | This means we are significant! | 13:23:57 |
| 17 Aug 2021 |
|  Guillaume Desforges joined the room. | 16:53:43 |
