| 20 Feb 2024 |
 @falaichte:techsaviours.org | It's why I like sending people in Antifa the spiderman pointing meme. | 15:55:18 |
|  @mjm:beeper.com joined the room. | 15:55:20 |
| @falaichte:techsaviours.org | Using authoritarianism to eradicate fascism makes you no better tbh. | 15:56:10 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | okay, so you didn't actually read and absorb a word of what I said, and were just hoping for an answer to respond to with a response you'd already previously cooked up and thought would sound like you're on the moral high horse | 15:56:23 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | got it | 15:56:24 |
|  @kranzes:matrix.org joined the room. | 15:57:47 |
|  @jakegrin:matrix.org joined the room. | 16:02:47 |
 @fractivore:cyberia.club | Yeah but a politics room doesn't mean "unmoderated" or "all viewpoints equally acceptable by our culture". It just means people have a way of avoiding potentially heated discussions like these, for example, if they want to focus on tech. I personally haven't seen politics rooms turn into nazi rooms and I'm in a few. | 16:07:49 |
|  @miloignis:synapse.room409.xyz left the room. | 16:07:52 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | But if people are okay with them going in off topic and it isn't seriously bothering people, I guess it's not really an issue | 16:08:20 |
 adamcstephens | i'm not seeing how a dedicated politics room becomes any more of a nazi room than an off topic room that allows politics | 16:08:59 |
|  @colin:uninsane.org left the room. | 16:09:14 |
| adamcstephens | you have to moderate either way | 16:09:15 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | adamcstephens 🐝: with the hope that this doesn't turn into a lengthy discussion here, I'd like to explain the rationale: that "you have to moderate either way" is where it falls down. the problem with separate politics rooms is that, unless you already have very robust community-wide moderation (which NixOS currently does not), you end up with "the offtopic room that's nice to be in, and the politics room where people are always fighting", and so either a) the need for solid and accurate (!= legalistic) moderation in the politics room is not recognized, because the isolation into its own room is seen as the whole solution, or b) even if that need is nominally recognized, nobody wants to be the one dealing with the room where people are always fighting, and so moderator presence just reduces further and further over time, until it becomes effectively unmoderated. the 'pure concentration' of contentious topics into a single room, with no other topics to 'lighten the mood', ends up being its downfall | 16:12:53 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | if it is not possible to have constructive political discussions in a general room without them exploding into misery and fighting, then that is a pretty reliable sign in and of itself that the community is not in a healthy place to have a self-moderated politics room | 16:14:05 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | so even though "a way for people to tune out of political topics" is in and of itself a valid thing to want, I don't think it's actually implementable in the current state of the community without serious problematic side-effects | 16:14:51 |
| adamcstephens | ok fair enough. i still think the best for the community is to not allow political discussions at all, especially if they are contentious or heated. there are other avenues for such discussions that aren't directly connected to nix/nixos, a technology focused community. | 16:15:59 |
| adamcstephens | you're actually reinforcing my opinion by describing the problems with a dedicated room :) | 16:16:26 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | everything is political, including tech, and a "no politics" rule would be functionally equivalent to a "no marginalized perspectives" rule | 16:16:41 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | it can seem like technology is not a political topic, and it is 'just about the technology', but generally that just means that you experience certain privileges in your use of technology that others do not have and that you might not realize | 16:18:04 |
 @lillecarl:matrix.org | (I'm just disagreeing) | 16:18:24 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (this is something I am only willing to point out and explain/clarify; not something I am willing to debate) | 16:18:31 |
| adamcstephens | i realize the boundaries of "politics" are unclear, but when it comes to political philosophies, parties, governments, etc, i think it seems quite clear that there will be widespread and unresolvable differences m | 16:19:53 |
| adamcstephens | * i realize the boundaries of "politics" are unclear, but when it comes to political philosophies, parties, governments, etc, i think it seems quite clear that there will be widespread and unresolvable differences | 16:20:06 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | to clarify, with 'politics' I am referring to politics as a whole, not just electoral politics; and electoral politics is actually relevant very rarely in that | 16:20:32 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and usually only indirectly | 16:20:45 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | but there do not ever seem to be conversations about electoral politics in the NixOS rooms, pretty much, so I don't think that's really a relevant problem to be talking about | 16:21:41 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | Geopolitics is gonna keep coming up in an international community, there's no way around it | 16:22:35 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | Plus it's a large community, and people would have to both know about and agree to a "no political discussion" rule, so I don't think it's realistic | 16:23:37 |
| adamcstephens | i mean there is. if you don't allow it, when i start talking about the ukraine war it gets shut down | 16:23:53 |
