| 24 May 2025 |
 emily | (because of code architecture issues, or design decision?) | 09:48:46 |
 uep | as is the fact that any of this faff is letting the spammers win | 09:48:53 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | there's no "letting the spammers win" please stop. Yes Matrix is unsafe, yes the people making decisions were irresponsible and stupid. None of that is new and spammers didn't change it. | 09:50:43 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
(because of code architecture issues, or design decision?) both sort of | 09:51:02 |
| emily | well, letting them post CSAM is also letting the spammers win. we do have to respond in some form | 09:51:57 |
| emily | but I agree with what I think Gnuxie 💜🐝 means, which is that ultimately this is Matrix project failures | 09:52:09 |
| emily | but it is also true that I am sure that if we had someone intent on spamming a Zulip with CSAM they'd succeed and we probably wouldn't have great tools to deal with it there either. | 09:53:11 |
| emily | so there is certainly a cat-and-mouse, pragmatism element: so far nobody seems to actually want to target NixOS that badly, only Matrix | 09:53:28 |
| uep | the spammers are (to the extent we can guess any motives) trying to drive users away and make matrix a worse experience. To the extent that we make the new user joining experience harder in response, is some sort of success for them. That's all I mean. | 09:54:19 |
| emily | OTOH, insofar as Matrix's failures are exposed by spam waves that cause projects to make a pragmatic decision to use something else to dodge them, that seems like basically the correct thing to happen to Matrix because of those failures. | 09:54:20 |
| emily | I mean, of course ideally the pipeline from bad project management to people not using your thing doesn't involve abuse spreading illegal imagery to hundreds of servers… the spammers can go to hell regardless :/ | 09:55:16 |
| emily | but I don't think we should have an attitude of "we need to stay on Matrix to not let them win". (I don't think anyone has this attitude though… so maybe what I'm saying is pointless) | 09:55:46 |
