| 18 Jul 2025 |
 Cat | So since Draupnir must be able to create your rooms now it also needs a manual room upgrade command even if its a rudementary one at that. | 17:34:24 |
 emily | In reply to @0x4a6f:matrix.org
I did something back then: https://github.com/NixOS/infra/wiki/Tombstoning-a-room-on-Matrix good grief has @k900:0upti.me really been doing this | 17:35:22 |
| Cat | Thats a creative solution to the problem. | 17:36:54 |
| Cat | using 2 tombstones. | 17:37:03 |
| Cat | https://gitea.blesmrt.net/mikaela/scripts/src/branch/master/bash/matrix-upgrade-room.bash is the script i like to refer to. | 17:38:08 |
| emily | I'm inferring that the bug v12 tries to fix is "an attacker can make a room's state permanently screwed up beyond fixing" | 17:39:22 |
| emily | though I wouldn't have expected them to put out that softening statement on the urgency if any arbitrary attacker can do that, hmm | 17:39:35 |
 f0x | huh, but the predecessor event_id being the tombstone wasn't even that important right, just happens to be what Synapse does since it can create chicken and egg at the same time | 17:40:00 |
| Cat | its important but the exact event ID is not. | 17:41:02 |
| Cat | as in feel free to pick any event ID you want people to get jumped to | 17:41:20 |
| Cat | And even then that feature is maby getting removed for v12 because they are being dumb with thinking their chicken and egg dance is actually needed. | 17:41:46 |
| f0x | right yeah | 17:41:54 |
| Cat | my powershell script when i do upgrade with notice | 17:42:11 |
| Cat | i literally use the event ID that the API returns as the value | 17:42:32 |
| emily | In reply to @charles:computer.surgery
I personally am interested in other protocols at this point (ones that exist or not?) | 17:42:38 |
 [0x4A6F] | Best thing is to also disallow changes to the tombstone room, otherwise nick changes and avatar changes might be annoying. | 17:42:42 |
| Cat | as in my notice message is the event ID i use. | 17:42:43 |
| Cat | Those cant be blocked but yes do send a PL event to block everything else. | 17:43:04 |
| f0x | yeah that makes sense, in the past I just used the last message event id in the old room | 17:43:06 |
| Cat | And that spam is why the removal is so dumb | 17:43:15 |
| Cat | because now we have to scroll thru it | 17:43:21 |
| Cat | instead of jumping past it. | 17:43:26 |
 Charles | not sure yet, i want to do some shopping around; maybe something i would be comfortable using exists already. i'm looking for something with, uh, worse availability guarantees, i guess | 17:44:17 |
| emily | I hope searching the old iteration of a room seamlessly isn't going to break | 17:44:18 |
| emily | except that's also a threat model if the room owner can continue spamming in the old one now huh | 17:44:36 |
| Cat | That was always a threat model | 17:44:51 |
| Cat | you cant block your own ability to send messages after the first PL event. | 17:45:04 |
| emily | In reply to @charles:computer.surgery
not sure yet, i want to do some shopping around; maybe something i would be comfortable using exists already. i'm looking for something with, uh, worse availability guarantees, i guess I love to sacrifice availability. it's my favourite thing to do | 17:45:13 |
| Cat | Thats the only time you can block your own ability to send an event in v11 and before. | 17:45:16 |
| Charles | yeah it's sad but i believe it is necessary | 17:45:42 |
