| 13 May 2025 |
 K900 | It's all large communities on Matrix | 12:47:51 |
| K900 | And the attacker is human | 12:48:00 |
 emily | (and I don't think the underlying reasons matter more to us than the practical outcome) | 12:48:04 |
| K900 | There is some level of automation, but it's not spray and pray | 12:48:10 |
| K900 | The attacker is aware of who they're targeting | 12:48:24 |
| K900 | And how effective they are | 12:48:35 |
| emily | (I think the counterargument is that moving off Matrix because of this is "letting the terrorists win", but I sort of think they're already winning.) | 12:48:54 |
| K900 | Zulip has some objective issues like push not working on self-hosted servers | 12:49:48 |
 adamcstephens | I think we suffer through matrix because it's one of the few non-proprietary solutions. But if it can't even provide us a place for having a publicly available chat, we should consider our options. | 12:49:55 |
| K900 | I feel like a lot of people in the community have been burned by The Governance Zulip Experience | 12:50:11 |
| K900 | Also, Zulip's moderation tools are objectively terrible and a targeted attack would do more damage there | 12:50:33 |
| K900 | Though I do believe that if we move to Zulip, we will not be targeted by this particular attack | 12:50:49 |
 truh | Zulip felt closer to discourse than to matrix/irc tbh | 12:51:01 |
| K900 | Zulip is somewhat of a middle ground, yes | 12:51:29 |
 Valodim | interesting comparison, yeah | 12:51:30 |
 @saiko:knifepoint.net | In reply to @k900:0upti.me
Zulip has some objective issues like push not working on self-hosted servers oh interesting. I didn’t even know you could self-host it | 12:51:42 |
| K900 | You can | 12:51:51 |
| @saiko:knifepoint.net | I thought it was proprietary haha | 12:51:53 |
| K900 | For some definition of | 12:51:59 |
| K900 | I'm really not sure what you're trying to argue for here | 12:52:32 |
| K900 | The options are being considered | 12:52:36 |
| K900 | There are no significantly better ones that we're aware of | 12:52:42 |
| K900 | If there's something specific you have in mind, please just say it | 12:52:49 |
| adamcstephens | You already shot down IRC and proprietary solutions, but why are both of those inherently off the table? | 12:53:10 |
| adamcstephens | And is that a collective stance, or just your personal? | 12:53:43 |
| emily | at some point if the Matrix becomes sufficiently inaccessible to users we will cede user support to Discord by default | 12:54:26 |
| emily | whether we like it or not | 12:54:29 |
| K900 | IRC: moderation tools are basically non-existent, user experience is extremely variable depending on client | 12:54:33 |
| K900 | Proprietary solutions: does this just mean Discord? | 12:55:20 |
| truh | Or slack I guess | 12:55:45 |
