!UUYziobKGGxpovWyAN:nixos.org

Robotnix

251 Members
Build Android (AOSP) using Nix | https://github.com/danielfullmer/robotnix79 Servers

Load older messages


SenderMessageTime
10 Mar 2026
@jaen:matrix.orgjaen

Yes, Opus 4.6 is pretty impressive. I'm using it heavily as a sort of executive dysfunction and dysthymia therapy tool and it can run, like, 10 projects of varying sizes in the background while I work/focus on one of them myself. And with 4.6 it's finally good enough code (sometimes better than I would've written, don't think that any amount learning would've allowed me to write a dependently typed language) that if you have a strict planning workflow with tight guardrails (thank the deities for NixOS VM tests), then you can leave it doing it's own thing for quite a while and get out good enough code out of it.

But if you actually go and submit that upstream yourself as-is then wat. The model still does not actually understand what it had written. That it can appears as if it does is very impressive, but that is gone as soon as the context is and can't replace proper understanding and learning. And why are you sending out code nobody understands (or very soon won't), then it basically is offloading the comprehension of your code on the upstream, which sucks. If you write with models, which I think finally stopped being a malpractice with Opus 4.6, then the minimum courtesy you can do is working with its output enough that you don't have to add it as a co-author and have your intellectual property claim hold up in court (which is actually an even stronger reason to reject purely slopped contributions - nobody wants to suddenly learn that their GPL claim was oveturned in court because some silly contributor didn't have IP over the code they "written").

05:37:09
@amaan:amaanq.comamaan joined the room.06:53:26
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rb

And youre all still successfully ignoring all the moral issues of using these LLMs:

  1. Burning the planet even more than were already were: check
  2. Preventing people from buying new computers or upgrading old ones: check
  3. Stealing everyones copyrighted works and profiting off of them: check
09:21:48
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rb Using the things at all and in any capacity is in my immoral 09:23:01
@etwas:catgirl.dogetwas joined the room.15:52:13
@jonathanfishbein:matrix.orgJonathan FishbeinYea theres no pr just my personal repo. More of a poc than anything16:09:50
@jonathanfishbein:matrix.orgJonathan FishbeinIt would have been disingenuous to have removed claude as a contributor16:19:48
@jaen:matrix.orgjaenIf you would have done enough work on it yourself for it to qualify as your IP it wouldn't have been disingenuous. As it is now, this code is nobody's (or everybody's I guess, belongin in public domain) in some jurisdictions (e.g. EU), so in a way it's actually disingenuous to put anybody as the author P:16:39:25
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbi would say that the code should be illegal, since its derived from everyones code without anyones permission16:41:03
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbor assuming it was only derived from GPL code (unlikely) then it under the GPL and the copyright is held by everyone16:41:36
@jaen:matrix.orgjaenYMMV, but in my view all of this is a capitalism problem, not a model problem. Eat the rich and suddenly models stop being immoral. And YMMV, but 3. is good actually. It's copyright that is immoral and EU having an internal legal report saying that LLM code without enough human input to qualify as transformative is in public domain.16:41:49
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbno copyright is not immoral as long as copyright exists16:42:19
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbi would prefer if there was no copyright, or rather everything was required to be under the AGPLv316:42:39
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbbut we dont live in that world, as such it is morally acceptable for me to enforce AGPLv3 for my projects so that they can't be profited of. Either everyone plays by the rules of no copyright or im not playing either16:43:22
@jaen:matrix.orgjaenFair I suppose? Before it gets further off the rails, just one remark that my understanding is according to this interpretation they can't really profit off such code, because it's not theirs to begin with, because without the transformative element it defaults to public domain. Of course another question is enforcing that by suing and winning, but it's the same problem with GPL in principle?16:46:04
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbyeah i guess we agree mostly, and yes, not the right room for this at all, i just cant help myself. I have a very strong opinion on this issue16:47:38
@jaen:matrix.orgjaenYeah. We probably don't agree at the core (I don't really hate models), but we probably agree on hating people using them to the detriment of society at large. And it's understandable how a person with human feelings and empathy can get angry at that. Anyway, peace & out on this end16:51:54
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rb

last remark:

(I don't really hate models)
if someone presents me a model which was trained only on code which is either all permissive or if GPL then produces GPL code, id consider it. ofc then the question of elecricity cost and training cost comes along and the fact that such a model would be incredibly useless. currently the tech fundamentally relies on theft to function

16:54:28
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rb *

last remark:

(I don't really hate models)

if someone presents me a model which was trained only on code which is either all permissive or if GPL then produces GPL code, id consider it. ofc then the question of elecricity cost and training cost comes along and the fact that such a model would be incredibly useless. currently the tech fundamentally relies on theft to function

16:54:33
12 Mar 2026
@sebastian:srx.digitalcrstl changed their profile picture.18:02:38
13 Mar 2026
@waltmck:matrix.orgwaltmck People keep saying this, but individual use of LLMs is really not a significant contributor to climate change---see here for a more detailed breakdown. In particular, if you are only concerned about energy usage, probably compiling Android from source is a lot more unethical than the LLM use in the course of development. 23:16:35
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbindividual use maybe, but thats the same argument as with vegan stuff23:17:10
@waltmck:matrix.orgwaltmckThe biggest problem is that they just don't produce a great quality of code yet, so the reviewing burden becomes greater than the burden of having an LLM write you a PR23:17:16
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbindividual it doesnt matter, but if everyone does it23:17:20
@waltmck:matrix.orgwaltmckRight, but if you are concerned with power use why are you compiling Android?23:17:31
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbagain23:17:38
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbthere are 4 people compiling android23:17:47
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbagainst thousands running llms and generating millions of lines of slop23:18:03
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbone isnt quite the same than the other23:18:16
@magic_rb:matrix.redalder.orgmagic_rbif you cant see that we have nothing to discuss23:18:25

Show newer messages


Back to Room ListRoom Version: 6