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Nix Hackers

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For people hacking on the Nix package manager itself80 Servers

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20 Aug 2021
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusYeah, im aware10:28:04
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him) Gytis Ivaskevicius: because they are not derivations 10:28:09
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusYeah, obviously10:28:27
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)they are fetched directly at eval time by the evaluator more or less10:28:33
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskeviciusbut why arent they derivations10:28:34
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusWhats the exact "good practice" with these builtins?10:28:59
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)well the main use case for this is that it's a bit better than ifd for pulling in eval dependencies10:29:38
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskeviciusis it fine just ignore our pkgs.fetchXyz and use these10:29:43
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him) so if you want to do import (fetchgit { … }) you may need to bootstrap git at eval time 10:29:55
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)also fetchgit needs to come from somewhere10:30:09
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)so this is needed for bootstrapping10:30:20
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskevicius
In reply to @sternenseemann:systemli.org
well the main use case for this is that it's a bit better than ifd for pulling in eval dependencies
Is it better? I assume it does not block everything?
10:30:22
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him) of course it's better as you never need to build anything 10:30:51
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskeviciusyeah but it does same old fetching. Result of that is more or less the same10:31:38
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusI guess what I am thinking of is "Why Nix cant do anything on its own" I feel like fetchign a tar and extracting is very much in line of what package manager should be capable of10:33:41
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)in effect maybe, but the difference is quite significant how it works10:33:55
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskeviciusyeah10:34:02
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)it can fetchTarball on its own?10:34:07
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusThis function fetches it but it is not a derivation which (atleast from my point of view) implies that it is internal builtin and should be strongly avoided for normal usecases10:39:03
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskevicius * This function fetches it but it is not a derivation which (atleast from my point of view) implies that it is internal builtin and should be avoided for normal usecases10:39:20
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusDo you get what I mean?10:39:30
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskevicius * This function fetches it but it is not a derivation which (atleast from my point of view) implies that it is internal builtin and should be strongly avoided for normal usecases10:40:11
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)that is the wrong thinking, I'd say. It has some properties and should consequently be used for the appropriate use cases11:58:40
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)it shouldn't be used for fetching sources in most cases because it means that the sources will necessarily be fetched at compile time (since the store path needs to be created), here derivations are more appropriate because they can be instantiated and built later11:59:29
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)if you need the fetch result at eval time, using builtin fetchers is much better11:59:43
@sternenseemann:systemli.orgsterni (he/him)in a lot of cases this doesn't matter too much though, and in most cases where it matters its forbidden anyways (restricted eval limits it to certain urls, pure eval forbids it completely)12:01:01
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusI feel like one of us misunderstands something. You said "that is the wrong thinking" but then basically agreed with me 🤔13:20:37
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusAnyways, what i do care about is why Nix is not able to do such things on its own, why cant Nix take care of git fetching or more importantly tarball fetch for our packages? 🤔 13:22:50
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis IvaskeviciusHas there been any conversation on this? (I would imagine so 🤔)13:23:09
@gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.orgGytis Ivaskevicius Also i feel like trivial-builders.nix is somewhat similar. I feel like thats something that Nix itself should be able to do 🤔 13:24:09

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