| 22 Dec 2025 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu/blob/f6217f891ac0bb64f3d375211650a4c1ff8ca1ea/libsyscall/wrappers/select-base.c#L169 | 16:58:24 |
Randy Eckenrode | It appears the check may be happening prior to the syscall? | 17:00:49 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | implies we would need our own libSystem or smth? :D | 17:01:09 |
Randy Eckenrode | Darwin doesn’t support alternate libcs. There is no guarantee of syscall compatibility between kernel versions. | 17:01:45 |
Randy Eckenrode | (You can try to do it. Go did. Someone got Musl working. If you encounter problems, you’ll be informed that you shouldn’t be doing that.) | 17:02:35 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | guess we could ship a custom select in glib... with some kind of runtime check during build to avoid broken glib if they ever change the behavior... | 17:04:34 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu/blob/f6217f891ac0bb64f3d375211650a4c1ff8ca1ea/bsd/sys/_types/_fd_def.h#L37_L40 | 17:04:36 |
Randy Eckenrode | What happens if you define your own FD_SETSIZE? | 17:04:52 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | I assume that since libSystem is as it was compiled with the 1024 limit, it won't do much. but let me check. | 17:05:51 |
Randy Eckenrode | The checks are inline functions in the header. | 17:06:44 |
Randy Eckenrode | Or setting _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT with select? | 17:07:08 |
Randy Eckenrode | * Or defining _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT when using select? | 17:07:19 |
Randy Eckenrode | * Or defining _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT when using select or pselect? | 17:07:42 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | I copied half of that file, commented out include for select.h, removed the check and now it works
=== Test 2: pselect() with FD >= FD_SETSIZE (DANGEROUS!) ===
This test intentionally demonstrates undefined behavior
Attempting to add FD 1024 to fd_set (FD_SETSIZE=1024)...
WARNING: This will cause undefined behavior!
Before FD_SET: fd_set memory looks normal
fd_set bytes before: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Calling FD_SET(1024, &dangerous_set)...
fd_set bytes after: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Memory corruption may have occurred!
Attempting pselect() with corrupted fd_set...
pselect() unexpectedly succeeded with 0 ready FDs
I don't know if "works" means more than "it returned 0" but...
| 17:11:29 |
Randy Eckenrode | What if you just set that define before including any headers? | 17:13:44 |
Randy Eckenrode | With both select and pselect? | 17:14:00 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/releasenotes/Darwin/SymbolVariantsRelNotes/index.html | 17:16:13 |
Randy Eckenrode |
Setting the _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT macro will select the extension variants of select() and pselect(), which uses the $DARWIN_EXTSN suffix. The extended versions do not fail if the first argument is greater than FD_SETSIZE. This was the original BSD behavior.
| 17:17:01 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | yes defining just _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT works too. | 17:21:01 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | I will try to enable it for glib and see if it fixes qemu. that said...
any reason to ever not have it set when running on darwin? | 17:29:02 |
Randy Eckenrode | Not sure. Probably not. The check is for POSIX compliance. | 17:31:49 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20221102-00/?p=107343 | 17:34:21 |
Randy Eckenrode | * https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20221102-00/? | 17:34:30 |
Randy Eckenrode | * | 17:34:35 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | claims on how this works
Apple's libc has a pretty wild feature (guarded by _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT, on by default) which allows fds above FD_SETSIZE. It works by checking the address of the fd_set: if it's within the current thread's stack, then the call will fail, under the assumption that it's a stack-allocated fd_set.
But if the address is NOT within the current thread's stack, select() assumes you know what you're doing and will allow the call, trusting you have allocated sufficient memory for the high fds in the fd_set.
so there may be some condition to fulfill to make it work.
which I think is not satisfied for qemu main loop fds?
| 17:34:35 |
Randy Eckenrode | That Old New Thing article provides a good explanation why things are the way they are. | 17:37:21 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | (taht said, in my test program I also define fds[] on stack and it "succeeds" so maybe claims are wrong) | 17:38:40 |
Randy Eckenrode | What about the emulation? How does it allocate the set? | 17:39:46 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | "emulation"? you mean g_poll macos implementation? | 17:40:35 |
Randy Eckenrode | The implication in the Darwin headers seems to suggest that it’s using a 64-bit type, which is a lot of fds. | 17:40:36 |