| 22 Dec 2025 |
Randy Eckenrode | * https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20221102-00/? | 17:34:30 |
Randy Eckenrode | * | 17:34:35 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | claims on how this works
Apple's libc has a pretty wild feature (guarded by _DARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT, on by default) which allows fds above FD_SETSIZE. It works by checking the address of the fd_set: if it's within the current thread's stack, then the call will fail, under the assumption that it's a stack-allocated fd_set.
But if the address is NOT within the current thread's stack, select() assumes you know what you're doing and will allow the call, trusting you have allocated sufficient memory for the high fds in the fd_set.
so there may be some condition to fulfill to make it work.
which I think is not satisfied for qemu main loop fds?
| 17:34:35 |
Randy Eckenrode | That Old New Thing article provides a good explanation why things are the way they are. | 17:37:21 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | (taht said, in my test program I also define fds[] on stack and it "succeeds" so maybe claims are wrong) | 17:38:40 |
Randy Eckenrode | What about the emulation? How does it allocate the set? | 17:39:46 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | "emulation"? you mean g_poll macos implementation? | 17:40:35 |
Randy Eckenrode | The implication in the Darwin headers seems to suggest that it’s using a 64-bit type, which is a lot of fds. | 17:40:36 |
Randy Eckenrode | Yeah. | 17:40:45 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | not sure I understand. the fds are passed by caller. it's up to caller. | 17:41:44 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | complete macos g_poll:
gint
g_poll (GPollFD *fds,
guint nfds,
gint timeout)
{
struct timeval tv;
fd_set rset, wset, xset;
GPollFD *f;
int ready;
int maxfd = 0;
FD_ZERO (&rset);
FD_ZERO (&wset);
FD_ZERO (&xset);
for (f = fds; f < &fds[nfds]; ++f)
if (f->fd >= 0)
{
if (f->events & G_IO_IN)
FD_SET (f->fd, &rset);
if (f->events & G_IO_OUT)
FD_SET (f->fd, &wset);
if (f->events & G_IO_PRI)
FD_SET (f->fd, &xset);
if (f->fd > maxfd && (f->events & (G_IO_IN|G_IO_OUT|G_IO_PRI)))
maxfd = f->fd;
}
tv.tv_sec = timeout / 1000;
tv.tv_usec = (timeout % 1000) * 1000;
ready = select (maxfd + 1, &rset, &wset, &xset,
timeout == -1 ? NULL : &tv);
if (ready > 0)
for (f = fds; f < &fds[nfds]; ++f)
{
f->revents = 0;
if (f->fd >= 0)
{
if (FD_ISSET (f->fd, &rset))
f->revents |= G_IO_IN;
if (FD_ISSET (f->fd, &wset))
f->revents |= G_IO_OUT;
if (FD_ISSET (f->fd, &xset))
f->revents |= G_IO_PRI;
}
}
return ready;
}
| 17:42:17 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | you mean fd_sets? | 17:43:04 |
Randy Eckenrode | Yeah. | 17:43:51 |
Randy Eckenrode | That comment about where the sets are allocated doesn’t make sense to me. | 17:44:42 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | guess I should just test and see. I have a reproducer, just need to recompile glib to qemu and see. | 17:44:57 |
Randy Eckenrode | * | 17:44:59 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | source == hacker news nobody | 17:45:27 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://github.com/apple-oss-distributions/xnu/blob/f6217f891ac0bb64f3d375211650a4c1ff8ca1ea/bsd/sys/_types/_fd_def.h#L52_L54 | 17:46:06 |
Randy Eckenrode | Fish shell developer? | 17:47:01 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | I was actually also looking at the same struct def. so looks like we may need to also define the __DARWIN_FD_SETSIZE otherwise we write past the end of the struct (I think) | 17:47:57 |
Randy Eckenrode | Or malloc it based on the size of the incoming set. | 17:49:12 |
Randy Eckenrode | Glib supports using cleanup functions to make that less messy. | 17:49:27 |
Randy Eckenrode | Though if it’s a mask for all fds, you don’t really know the needed size. | 17:50:00 |
Randy Eckenrode | https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?select | 17:52:21 |
Randy Eckenrode | Apple mentioned FreeBSD being unlimited. I agree we should probably increase the amount of memory it’s using (either by defining FD_SETSIZE or some other way). | 17:53:19 |
Randy Eckenrode | Looks like (unsurprisingly) FreeBSD has a similar implementation.
https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/f51e9d0e0988df58c94db586ab5c8b5fd091c004/sys/sys/select.h#L65
| 17:55:17 |
Randy Eckenrode | I guess FreeBSD doesn’t enforce the limit if you define it to something non-default. | 17:55:46 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | so darwin just broke the api to pass posix | 17:56:22 |
Ihar Hrachyshka | well, broke -> adjusted to standard | 17:56:33 |
hexa | Randy Eckenrode, emily any reason I should not update the darwin buildfarm to tahoe? | 21:45:40 |