| 23 Jul 2021 |
 David Arnold (blaggacao) | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as like `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm). | 01:49:04 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm). | 01:49:20 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * Isn't one of the core principles of nixos to be declarative / managed through gitops? I feel a GUI installer would dilute that principle a bit. I guess in the gitops direction, we could try to standardize or gather consensus on repo templates that provide a structure to get quick started. Efforts such as `flake-utils-plus`, `divnix/digga` or `divnix/devos` (in the flake realm, that I know of). | 01:49:56 |
 tomberek | Flakes themselves are a structure for Nix overall. I see these other projects as exploring the design space that may at one point be adopted for NixOS configurations. (Eg: niv for pinning) | 01:51:40 |
 matthewcroughan - nix.zone | In reply to @jonringer:matrix.org
I think the problem is that nixos is a "choose your own adventure" distro. Other distros have a much easier time as the provide one well polished experience. Not over time though. NixOS is like a permanent LTS. | 01:52:34 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | The logo for Nix is so brilliant in this regard. If you do history | wc -l on any other distro, you can find out how many 'commits away from master' you are. There is no hope of ever returning to a baseline. | 01:53:09 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | With Nix, every upgrade has given me warnings that I can fix easily, and things are deprecated lovingly. | 01:53:32 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | It's a choose your own adventure, but you can always get back to the start, and the branches are never severed. | 01:54:49 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | The logo is brilliant in this regard. | 01:54:54 |
 davidak | "You’ve got to start with the customer experience and work backward to the technology. You can’t start with the technology then try to figure out where to sell it."
https://www.horsesforsources.com/steve-jobs1997_080820 (with video)
i got the quote from this video at 12:33 (can't link because chromium is broken on nixos unstable and can't display text)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SFBoB6xijY
| 03:23:24 |
| davidak | i think that's what we try to do with nix and nixos, especially the people in this room. try to sell a product that no one asked for and most even say they don't need it (see hackernews comments on nixos) | 03:24:59 |
| davidak | on the other hand look what elementary OS, Pop_OS! and SteamOS does | 03:25:40 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | I think a declarative system is like painting a picture. It's such a great thing for people who like to keep their environment tidy. Maybe we could start from there? | 03:26:42 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * I think a declarative model is like painting a picture. It's such a great thing for people who like to keep their environment tidy. Maybe we could start from there? | 03:26:57 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * I think a declarative model is like painting a picture. It's such a great thing for people who like to keep their environment tidy. Maybe we could start from there? | 03:27:32 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | "NixOS - (almost) draw your system" | 03:28:36 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | This makes me think of those draw by numbers leaflets for children. As an analogy, maybe we can have something that helps/guids people "draw" their NixOs system... | 03:29:44 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * This makes me think of those draw by numbers leaflets for children. As an analogy, maybe we can have something that helps/guides people "draw" their NixOs system... | 03:29:54 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | more like carving a statue :P | 03:30:10 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * This makes me think of those draw by numbers leaflets for children. As an analogy, maybe we can have something that helps/guides people "draw" their NixOS system... | 03:30:10 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | made of stone, not of ice | 03:30:22 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | I think it appeals to "designers" and "composers", since "crafting" a system is oftentimes a piece of art. | 03:31:29 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * I think it appeals to "designers" and "composers", since "crafting" a system is oftentimes a piece of art. And people seem to enjoy to build the entire "whole" out of a single stone. | 03:32:18 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | This is dramatically incompatible with the functional model os system administration. | 03:33:15 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | * This is dramatically incompatible with the functional model of system administration. | 03:33:24 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | I think that "system designer" is not too bad of a user persona. (Not the only one, sure!) | 03:34:16 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | I think Nix is CAD for computer systems. | 03:34:45 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | Maybe we can find an adjacent but more mass market persona? | 03:34:48 |
| davidak | that's what sysadmins do. most computer users are no sysadmins
like most car drivers don't build the car from scratch | 03:34:54 |
| matthewcroughan - nix.zone | You know how FreeCAD/Fusion360 are? They help you design objects that you'll manufacture in the real world. Nix helps you design computer systems. | 03:35:04 |
